Another thing I learned in theology class…

by Lori

 

Ok since there was some interest in what I am studying in my theology class and everyone was nice last time, I will toss out another one that came up for debate in class.

 

Did Jesus descend into hell? (after he died on the cross)

 

Now before I go into what the bible says and how Wayne Grudem (the author) interprets it. Let me say I grew up (as a Southern Baptist gal) with this belief. I could not really tell you why I held this belief, but it was just something I had heard growing up. But now I do not believe this to be true.

 

Where did the idea that Jesus descending into hell come from? Well the Apostle’s Creed states “He descended into hell” (this is where the idea came from).

 

The Apostles’ Creed reads:

“I believe in God, the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord;
who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead and buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.”

Actually the statement is not found in the earliest form of the Apostles’ Creed. Actually this phrase appeared in only ONE version of the Apostles Creed (Rufinus in AD 390). And Rufinus believed the phrase to mean “buried”.

 

So what does scripture say?

 

In Luke 23:43, Jesus says to the thief, “Today you will be with me in Paradise”. This means Jesus’ body died but his soul went immediately in presence of the Father, even though his body remained on earth. Just like if we die now.

 

Another scripture reference is Jesus’ crying, “It is finished” (Jn 19:30). This suggests that everything for the atonement of our sins have been completed.

 

Finally “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit” (Luke 23:46), suggests that Jesus expected the ending of his suffering and the end of his estrangement from God and back into the welcoming arms of God.

 

Grudem suggests that in Christ’s death he experience the same thing we experience once we die in this present age. Then on the first Easter morning, Christ’s body was united with his earthly body and he was raised from the dead. Just like it will happen to all Christians during Christ’s second coming. We will be raised in our perfect resurrected bodies for a new life.

 

After study and consideration, I don’t believe Christ descended in to hell, I believe Christ did not have to go through any additional suffering to pay for the atonement of our (my) sins.

 

Did you learn anything? Thoughts? Comments? Be nice!

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  • Peter Smythe
    Laurel, actually I am presently dealing with this issue on my blog. Jesus did descend into hell.

    With regard to John 19:30, "It is finished" refers to the Old Covenant, not Jesus's mission. Jesus's mission was not completed until He presented His blood before the Father on the third day. Hebrews 9:12 (which also fulfills the type of the Day of Atonement).

    As for the thief, he did not enter into heaven on Good Friday. According to John 3, he had to have been born again to "see" the kingdom of God. That could not happen until Jesus had been resurrected. 1 Corinthians 15:13-17. Therefore whe the thief died, he went to Abraham's bosom, just like everyone else did.

    Acts 2:27 plainly says that Jesus's soul was in hades. I understand that Grudem says something different than that, but that is for next week.
  • Carol
    A bit off topic, but Lundi raises an interesting point. Since there is no punctuation as such in the Greek language, where we decide we want to place a comma can really have a strong impact on how a verse reads.

    Great discussion, Laurel!
  • Kili @ Live Each Moment
    Oooh, I also like Cyndi's comment. About hell being seperation from God. Good point, that is true. I think that seems to make sense, but like I said I'll do more studying.!
  • Lisa writes...
    One of the passages that has been used to defend the position that Jesus descended into hell in between death and resurrection is 1 Pet. 3:18-20:

    For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

    Some think this means what you have been discussing, that Jesus went to Hades to preach to those who lived in the OT era, offering them a chance of salvation. Others think it means Jesus descended to proclaim His victory to fallen angels imprisoned since the time of Noah (2 Pet. 2:4).

    Finally, still other interpretations hold that it was the spirit of Christ preaching through Noah. Of course, Noah's audience did not believe and their spirits are now in hell.

    Interesting discussion. I think it's critically important that we take those things "we've always been taught" to God's Word and discover what He says or doesn't say. Let's look into the things we claim we believe and see if there is or is not Scripture to back it up!
  • Lindsey @ Enjoythejourney
    Hmmm, food for thought! Our pastor taught on this a few Easters ago. I wish I could remember all he had to say. But I'm in pretty much agreement that the decended in to hell part is a catechism type teaching that has been ADDED in. I don't think it is spelled out in the Bible that Jesus decended into hell. Could He? Well, yes, Jesus could do anything. But the Bible doesn't say it, or at least no where I can find.
  • Rachelle
    I've done a tiny bit of reading in this area, and I determined a few years ago that I did not believe Jesus descended into hell. In fact, whenever I come across it in the Apostle's creed, I don't say it. Great post!
  • Erin
    I'm certainly not an authority and I can see how that would be a very challenging faith question. We don't recite the Apostle's Creed at my church because of Rufinus (and because we really- for better or worse- only focus on the NT and more specifically Paul's letters (another topic for another day). But I agree with you. I don't think Jesus went to hell or that he had to go to hell for his suffering to be complete. He had to go to the cross and I agree with your explanations of the biblical verses, in the gospels but also the eph. verse- I do think it's more about his incarnation and life as fully human and fully divine than it is an allusion to him going to hell. I haven't taken a class on Pauline theology- it would be interesting to study his agendas in writing things like Ephesians more in depth.
    And for what it's worth, I'm ever so grateful.
    Happy Sunday and thank you so much for commenting on my post- it was so thoughtful and honest and it really made me feel good and feel validated!
  • Kili @ Live Each Moment
    Due to John 19:30 reference i would have to say no, I don't believe he did but I would have to study it more in depth to truly give you my opinion.

    BTW- I am southern baptist.
  • Terri @ In His Hands
    Laurel, I had to share that your post has sparked a lively dinner debate!
  • Laurel Wreath
    Oh I love how you are thinking about this.

    Eph 4

    9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
    10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

    Strong defines descended as
    be cast down to the lowest state of wretchedness and shame

    Matthew Henry Concordance says:

    as much as if he had said, "When David speaks of Christ's ascension, he intimates the knowledge he had of Christ's humiliation on earth; for, when it is said that he ascended, this implies that he first descended: for what is it but a proof or demonstration of his having done so?'' Into the lower parts of the earth; this may refer either to his incarnation, according to that of David, Psa. 139:15, (5 My frame was not hidden from you,
    when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth.) My substance was not hidden from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth; or, to his burial, according to that of Psa. 63:9, Those that seek my soul to destroy it shall go into the lower parts of the earth. He calls his death (say some of the fathers) his descent into the lower parts of the earth. He descended to the earth in his incarnation. He descended into the earth in his burial.

    incarnation = The doctrine that the Son of God was conceived in the womb of Mary and that Jesus is true God and true man.
  • Shelley
    Great post! I had always "believed" that Christ descended into hell, because that is what I was taught. This sounds like a great theology course you're taking. I just graduated last April with my BA in Biblical Studies.
  • Beth
    How 'bout Eph 4:8-10 - 8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." 9 (Now this, "He ascended" -- what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

    What is "descended" in this context?
  • Cyndi
    Okay, "He", not "we" in my previous comment. "HE went to Paradise."

    I should never post or comment without coffee. Hmph.
  • Cyndi
    Here's what I think (if I can word it worth a hoot). In so far as "hell" means "separation from God" I believe He experienced that in that moment when He bore, *became*, our sin and He cried out "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" He felt that "forsaken-ness" of God... hell. God's face could not look upon the sin, so His face momentarily "turned" and Jesus felt what those who are in hell feel for eternity- complete separation from God. In that moment He experienced hell on our behalf.

    Then we went to Paradise, where He welcomed the thief. :)

    Well, that's what I think. I'm loving everyone's thoughts!
  • Melanie
    Like Brenda, I grew up Southern Baptist- traditional SBC where they use nothing but the Bible. I had never heard Jesus went down into hell until recent years.
    I don't see any evidence of it in the Gospels.
    This is just opinion- When you think about it, why would He have to do both- suffer on the cross and in hell? Hell would be suffering enough.
    One very good tool I use for studying is a Strong's Concordance. It helps you connect the dots, if you will.

    One thing that can be a bit confusing is in Matthew 27:50-53.
    After Christ died, the graves of the saints were opened. They rose LATER, after Jesus rose. This may be a source of people thinking He released some of the dead. Just a thought.
  • Heidi
    Interesting discussion here. I pretty much have always believed what Beth posted.
    I have never looked into it personally though.
    What a challenge!
  • Lundie
    Interesting. I was raised to believe that the full phrase of Christ was, "Verily I say unto you today, you will be with me in paradise".

    We were taught that Christ meant that the man was saved and would be raised at the second coming.

    Like Christ was saying "I'm telling you right now", not that the seeing him in paradise was immediate, but just that he meant what he said...

    Interesting stuff.

    I'm still not so sure about the hell stuff... :)
  • Brenda
    I grew up in the Southern Baptist church, and the first time I remember ever hearing that Jesus descended into hell was during a service last year at the Methodist church I go to now. It is not included in the Apostles' Creed that we recite, but the pastor mentioned that it is included in traditional versions of the creed. Unfortunately, I do not remember if he gave an explanation for why it was there in the first place.
  • Linda
    I always thought He did too Laurel. It's funny how you can get something in your mind and then not be all that sure about how it got there!! I'll have to do a bit more studying, but I think you may be right. I don't know of any scripture that says He did.
    Thanks for always writing such thoughtful posts. Hope you're feeling better.
  • eph2810
    Okay - I am back, but only with a Scripture passage:
    Matthew 12:38-41...

    Much love,
    Iris
  • eph2810
    Mhm - interesting thoughts. I have to do some Bible search on it and get back to you on it...
  • Laurel Wreath
    Beth that is what my Mom and I believe also, but I don't have any scripture to back that up. And this author (for me) made a compelling argument. But you will find theologians that do believe as you have stated.

    One thing that is stated at the beginning of our class is "The bible is inerrant (without error), our study of the bible is not". Meaning we could be wrong, but the best way to know if you are right is to hold it up against scripture.
  • Beth
    I always thought Jesus descended into hell to release those of some standard that did not belong there and to show He could break the gates of Hell open and nothing was more powerful than the Father thru Him. (My 1st thru 3rd grade cathecism is a LONG way in the past...) Couldn't tell ya where that was from but I could ck into it...
  • Clemntine
    What is the theology class? I'd like to take an online theology course, if a good one exists.

    I don't know if I'd have said I "believed" Jesus went to Hell, though I know that I certainly thought so.

    I mean, what Easter drama would be complete without Fake Jesus With James Brown Hair snatching the Very Large Keys to Death and Hell from the very hands of Old Slewfoot himself?

    However, after considering your references, and finding a few of my own in the OT, I'm with you.

    I've always thought about "It is finished". Intriguing phrase that, no? I think I just got the idea for my next blog post. Mind if I link back here?

    ;~D.
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